Hello everyone, welcome to another exciting episode of VR in Education, where we explore how virtual reality is being used to transform teaching and learning. Today, we're doing something a little different. Instead of speaking with someone developing or implementing immersive learning experiences, we're turning the tables on a fellow podcaster who has spent years interviewing the people shaping the world of XR. My guest today is Patrick O'Shea, host of The Versatilist podcast, where he's had a multitude of conversations with educators, researchers, and innovators exploring the possibilities of immersive learning, as part of the immersive learning research network. I'm particularly interested in what Patrick has learned from all these conversations. What patterns has he noticed? And perhaps most importantly, after hearing so many people talk about the problems they're trying to solve with immersive technology, what does he think the field itself needs to fix?  You can check out the Versalist and reach out to Patrick at https://www.immersivelrn.org/.